[sc34wg3] Association items
Nikita Ogievetsky
sc34wg3@isotopicmaps.org
Thu, 09 Jun 2005 06:52:46 -0400
Thank you Jan, but your answers come a few lines above my questions, so I am
not sure that I was clear enough. I will try again.
I suggested a wired enough case when somebody wants to find patterns between
people who decided to become parents. It is a huge commitment, and it might
be worth a research. So they are recording these as associations between two
people.
Then there is a person who just decided to clone him/herself.
In this case I have to create an association with one player (unless I have
the luxury to immediately redesign the whole system, see below).
Nikita:
! > Yes you can represent everything in 2+ associations.
! > But sometimes you can not: if you have certain ontology to fit in
! > and if
! > modifying ontology on the fly is not the luxury that you posses.
Jan:
! No, you just have to adapt the system to the changed domain
! semantics. Schema evolution is pretty common....
This is partially true: even more often data entry people are not modelers.
This is the real case scenario: authors and modelers are different actors.
--Nikita
* Jan Algermissen
!
! On Jun 9, 2005, at 5:15 AM, Nikita Ogievetsky wrote:
!
! > Dear Patrick and all dislikers of unary associations,
! >
! > Could you please model this:
! > I maintained a topic map that contained association between parents
! > that
! > gave their genes material to a child (supposing I do not care about
! > children, so I do not keep them in the topic map)
!
! That sounds like an attribute of the parent 'subject'
!
! > Then one day a guy comes in with an embryo in a tube.
! > Or perhaps it was a prokaryote that asexually reproduced by binary
! > fission?
! >
! > In any case, do I have to throw my system away, and write a new one?
! >
! No, you just have to adapt the system to the changed domain
! semantics. Schema evolution is pretty common....
!
! Jan
!
!
! > What happens with the information in the mean time?
! >
! > Yes you can represent everything in 2+ associations.
! > But sometimes you can not: if you have certain ontology to fit in
! > and if
! > modifying ontology on the fly is not the luxury that you posses.
! >
! > Hope that everybody enjoys the summer (or winter).
! >
! > -Nikita
! >
! > ! -----Original Message-----
! > ! From: sc34wg3-admin@isotopicmaps.org [mailto:sc34wg3-
! > ! admin@isotopicmaps.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
! > ! Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 8:00 PM
! > ! To: sc34wg3@isotopicmaps.org
! > ! Subject: [sc34wg3] Association items
! > !
! > ! This one was sent yesterday and was the first time I noticed that my
! > ! posts weren't making it to the list. :-(
! > !
! > ! Greetings!
! > !
! > ! This is mainly directed at Lars and Graham but I thought others
! > might be
! > ! interested in the question and any ensuing discussion.
! > !
! > ! I am trying to model the various parts of the TMDM as assertions
! > and in
! > ! the course of re-reading the TMDM, I ran across the following at 5.7
! > ! Association Items:
! > !
! > ! "An association is a representation of a relationship between one or
! > ! more subjects."
! > !
! > ! I mined the SC34WG3 archives for prior discussion of this point and
! > ! found Lars' post of April 18, 2003, subject line: Re: [sc34wg3]
! > ! Questions on N0396 (2) one or more association memberships,
! > pointing out:
! > !
! > ! ***quote***
! > ! This is a carry-over from HyTM and XTM., both of which allow unary
! > ! associations. The rationale, I have been told, was that unary
! > ! associations are essentially assertions about a single subject, such
! > ! as:
! > !
! > ! is-inquisitive(jan : person)
! > !
! > ! SAM has ot have this because HyTM and XTM have it.
! > ! ***/quote***
! > !
! > ! (For those of you with a historical interest, see Note 41 in ISO
! > ! 13250:1999 for HyTM and 2.2.4 Association for XTM. BTW, for
! > newcomers to
! > ! the community, "SAM" was the prior name for what has become the
! > TMDM.)
! > !
! > ! There is no question Lars is correct about HyTM and XTM, but I am
! > less
! > ! certain that answers the question about how to model a "unary"
! > ! association.
! > !
! > ! Note 41 (from ISO 13250) says: "Thus, the containing assoc
! > element can
! > ! assert that a topic has one or more specific relationships to
! > itself."
! > !
! > ! Although it is represented in syntax as a "unary" association,
! > shouldn't
! > ! it be modeled as an association with two roles, etc.?
! > !
! > ! This is not the only place where the issue comes up, as topic
! > name, for
! > ! example, is mentioned as a specialized kind of occurrence (TMDM,
! > page
! > ! 11) and it is later noted that an occurrence is a specialized
! > form of an
! > ! association (TMDM, page 13).
! > !
! > ! NOTE: I am NOT suggesting any change in syntax, processing, etc.,
! > but am
! > ! asking if the "unary" association in syntax should be modeled as
! > though
! > ! it were an association with two (or more) roles, role players,
! > etc. Some
! > ! parts of which are implied, for example with topic name if it is
! > ! considered ultimately to be a form of an association (I take it the
! > ! roles are implied even though the role players are known).
! > !
! > ! Hope everyone is having a great day!
! > !
! > ! Patrick
! > !
! > ! PS: For those of you who are interested, the example that Lars'
! > gives
! > ! above:
! > !
! > ! is-inquisitive(jan : person)
! > !
! > ! Can be seen as two roles: characteristic/person, with two role
! > ! players: is-inquisitive/jan.
! > !
! > ! Suppose in the best tradition of English anyway, the role of
! > ! characteristic is silent. ;-)
! > !
! > ! --
! > ! Patrick Durusau
! > ! Patrick@Durusau.net
! > ! Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
! > ! Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
! > ! Member, Text Encoding Initiative Board of Directors, 2003-2005
! > !
! > ! Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
! > !
! > !
! > ! _______________________________________________
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! > ! sc34wg3@isotopicmaps.org
! > ! http://www.isotopicmaps.org/mailman/listinfo/sc34wg3
! >
! >
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!
! ________________________________________________________________________
! ____________________
! Jan Algermissen, Consultant & Programmer
! http://jalgermissen.com
! Tugboat Consulting, 'Applying Web technology to enterprise IT'
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