[sc34wg3] Illustrating SIDPs

[Patrick Durusau]

Dmitry,

Dmitry wrote:
> 
> On May 4, 2004, at 2:30 PM, Patrick Durusau wrote:
> 
>> SIDPs (and, for that matter, OPs) can be arbitrarily complex.
>>
> 
> That is what I cannot find in current TMRM. I see that SIDP can be 
> defined as "combination of properties"  which I cannot call "arbitrarily 
> complex".
> 

Why did you decide that "combination of properties" does not equal 
"arbitrarily complex?"

Would you prefer "arbitrary combination of properties?"

Curious because that "combination of properties" is understood (by me at 
any rate) to mean "arbitrarily complex."

> TMCL on the other hand can express any equivalence function. I just 
> think that TMCL is more general and powerful approach for defining 
> equivalence classes. "Combination of properties" is a subset of possible 
> equivalence functions.
> 

There is no other hand. The TMRM and TMCL are addressing completely 
different levels of the topic map paradigm.

The TMRM is not defining a syntax but the rules for a disclosure 
statement, on which a syntax would be based.

In other words, the TMRM allows disclosure of the basis for identity 
that must underlie any equivalence or other functions.

> Let's, for example,  introduce concept "ordered sets" in topic map.
> 
> With TMCL we can easily define following equivalence function:
> 
> Two topics of class "ordered set" are equivalent if they have equivalent 
> members.
> 
> Can TMRM (using SIDPs) allow to disclose these kind of equivalence rules?
> 

Mixing levels again. The TMRM, using SIDPs, enables the disclosure of 
identity that must be present for any such rules to make sense. And yes, 
you can then disclose the equivalence (or any other rule) that you like.

> TMCL can do it because it allows to specify conditions such as "each X 
> in P1(X) satisfies P2(X)" and use full power of logical operators.
>

So, modulo your supplement post and yes, I understand what ordered set 
means, let's look at two ordered sets:

P1(carol, bambi, clarence) and a second ordered set, P2(carol, bambi, 
clarence).

Hmmm, looks like TMCL would say these are equivalent ordered sets.

But wait:

P1 (carol (wife of patrick), bambi (deer in Walt Disney movie), clarence 
(patrick's dog), and

P2 (carol (as to sing), bambi (a stripper), clarence (ghost in "It's a 
Wonderful Life," a movie).

Hmmm, where is the power of TMCL now?

Answer: Well, TMCL presumes a doctrine of identity (that should be 
defined elsewhere) that allows it to make meaningful comparison of the 
members of each ordered set.

The power of logical operators is available only if there is either:

1. A presumption of the identity doctrines of the surrogates to which 
they are to be applied (which can lead to real problems), or:

2. A disclosure of the identity doctrines of the surrogates to which 
they are to be applied, in which case the rules for equivalence can be 
matched to the basis for identity of each surrogate.

The degree to which one can presume an identity doctrine or to which 
disclosure of an identity doctrine is necessary, will vary from case to 
case. All the TMRM is trying to do is provide the ability to have that 
disclosure and to be able to therefore build rules based upon that 
disclosure. If you don't need/want it, not a problem. (Noting that your 
mileage may vary if you don't use disclosure, but that is a choice 
everyone gets to make.)

The notion that identity and doctrines of identity can be 
assumed/presumed is quite surprising to me given the amount of time that 
both Steves (Pepper and Newcomb) have spent over years talking about 
identity. I really don't think either one was doing it simply to hear 
the sound of their own voices.

I am working furiously to finish the post on identity versus 
identifiers. Looks like Monday at the earliest. I think it will help us 
explore yet another of the places where we have all be trying to talk to 
each other but have been in fact missing each other.

Hope you are having a great day!

(Note: Will be offline most of the rest of today. Carol, as in my wife, 
has guests coming tonight so I am being pressed into duty to prepare for 
the event.)

Patrick
-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!